(;GM[1]FF[4]AP[glGo:0.1.1]ST[1] SZ[19]KM[0.5] PW[Cornel]PB[Cornel]TM[0:00]DT[2004-05-13]PC[IGS-PandaNet]CP[Copyright (c) PANDANET Inc. 2004] AB[pd][dp] ;W[qp]MA[dc][de] (;B[de] (;W[dc]MA[cc] (;B[ec] ;W[eb] ;B[ed]LB[fb:1] (;W[fc]LB[db:A][fb:B] (;B[ge] ;W[cb] ;B[op] ;W[mq] ;B[qq] ;W[pq] ;B[pp] ;W[rq] ;B[qr] ;W[qo]TR[nq] (;B[oq] ;W[rr] ;B[pr] ;W[ql]LB[pn:A] (;B[nr]LB[mq:A][nr:B] ;W[jq] ;B[dj] ;W[cn]MA[co] (;B[fq] ;W[bp] ;B[cq] ;W[cl] ;B[ck] ;W[dl] ;B[qi] ;W[nc] (;B[lc] ;W[ne] ;B[qf] ;W[kd] ;B[ld] ;W[le] ;B[kc] ;W[jd] ;B[jc] ;W[id] ;B[hc] ;W[qc] ;B[pc] ;W[qd] ;B[pe] ;W[pb] ;B[ob] ;W[qb] ;B[oc] ;W[re]TR[ob][oc][pc][pd][pe][jg] (;B[rf] (;W[ci] ;B[cj] ;W[di] ;B[ej] ;W[be] ;B[bd] (;W[ce] (;B[ei] ;W[dg] ;B[jf] ;W[kf] ;B[jg] ;W[lh] ;B[hq] ;W[jo] ;B[lj] ;W[ki] ;B[bq] ;W[do] ;B[kj] ;W[ii] ;B[kh] ;W[li] ;B[ji] ;W[jj] ;B[jh] ;W[hd] ;B[gd] ;W[gc] ;B[hb] ;W[hf]MA[ge][ei][jg] ;B[fg] ;W[hh]SQ[rr][rq][qp][qo][qn][qm][ql][rl][sl][sr][sq][sp][be][ce][cd][dc][cb][eb][fb][fa][cf][cg][dg][ch][ci][bh][ah][bm][cn][cl][dl][do][em][en][jo][jp][jq][mq][lp][lo][kn][kr][lr][qb][qc][qd][re][se][rd][qa][sc]MA[aq][bq][cq][dp][eq][fq][gq][hq][hr][gs][nr][oq][pp][qq][qr][pr][ps][ns][hb][ib][ha][jc][kc][lc][mb][nb][oa][pg][ph][qi][qf][rf][rg][sg][ri][si] ;B[he] ;W[ie] ;B[if] ;W[hg] ;B[ke] ;W[je] ;B[ic] ;W[ke] ;B[lg] ;W[nh]SQ[mf] (;B[mj] ;W[ni] ;B[ng] ;W[mf]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: Hi flo [22k \]: hello Cornel [ 6d*\]: there are 2 cuts next Cornel [ 6d*\]: but black has to consider the ladder as well when choosing the cut]) (;B[mf]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: somebody suggested this move in kibitz during the game] ;W[me]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: white blocks, is forced Cornel [ 6d*\]: what next ?] (;B[mh] ;W[mi] ;B[ni] (;W[mj] ;B[ng] ;W[oh] ;B[kg] ;W[og] ;B[mg] ;W[nf] ;B[of] ;W[oi] ;B[nj] ;W[mk] ;B[oj] ;W[ih] ;B[pi] ;W[ig] ;B[pg] ;W[lf]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: same this way Jubilee [19k*\]: why not using aji from this dead group to save the stones on the left and build something ? Cornel [ 6d*\]: so no way out Cornel [ 6d*\]: even so is hard to win the game Cornel [ 6d*\]: b was already behind Cornel [ 6d*\]: so losing some more in this central fight decides the game for sure flo [22k \]: that was a nice game Cornel [ 6d*\]: black did ok to resign in that moment Cornel [ 6d*\]: thank you Cornel [ 6d*\]: and hope you enjoyed this review as well david752 [23k \]: it was a very good review flo [22k \]: thank you very much Cornel [ 6d*\]: I liked it better than the game:) Ankster011 [ NR \]: i love cornel!!!!! klapaucius [25k*\]: thanks, C enfo [20k*\]: thank you cornel! Cornel [ 6d*\]: and I love you too Ankie:)]) (;W[mg]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: if w here] ;B[mj] ;W[mh] ;B[oh] ;W[ng] ;B[nf] ;W[og] ;B[of] ;W[pg] ;B[ph] ;W[kg] ;B[qg] ;W[lf] ;B[pf] ;W[lg] ;B[jk] ;W[ij] ;B[nd] ;W[ih] ;B[md] ;W[ig]C[david752 [23k \]: wow, by one lib Cornel [ 6d*\]: 12 points enfo [20k*\]: that is a very thick ugly shape though heh Cornel [ 6d*\]: yes but white gets a very ugly shape though, like a grape:) david752 [23k \]: pretty enfo [20k*\]: black goes p10 now?] (;B[nj]C[enfo [20k*\]: to fix wall? Cornel [ 6d*\]: better o10 enfo [20k*\]: ah ok]) (;B[oj] ;W[nk] ;B[nj]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: cause of white's kikashi Cornel [ 6d*\]: still o10 Cornel [ 6d*\]: o10 is where white would cut enfo [20k*\]: kikashi = peep? Cornel [ 6d*\]: so my enemy's point is my point Cornel [ 6d*\]: nozoki is eye peep Cornel [ 6d*\]: kikashi is a sente forcing move enfo [20k*\]: ah Cornel [ 6d*\]: extremely sente:)]))) (;B[kg] ;W[mg] ;B[ng] ;W[mh] ;B[lf] ;W[nf]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: b is short in liberties])) (;B[me]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: somebody also mentioned this move] ;W[mf] ;B[md] ;W[mg]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: black can't escape] ;B[kg] ;W[lf] ;B[jk] ;W[ij] ;B[mi] ;W[mh])) (;B[cd] ;W[dd]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: no way out Cornel [ 6d*\]: for black Cornel [ 6d*\]: time to attack Cornel [ 6d*\]: white connects and also has a good shape Cornel [ 6d*\]: h3 was good Cornel [ 6d*\]: and m10 cap also david752 [23k \]: it is like magic Cornel [ 6d*\]: black overlooked the cuts though david752 [23k \]: I can never tell who is ahead Cornel [ 6d*\]: 3 weak groups for black Cornel [ 6d*\]: ahead in territory or in this fight ? david752 [23k \]: in the fights Cornel [ 6d*\]: well, you need to play many games Cornel [ 6d*\]: 19x19 especially flo [22k \]: well, everybody knows white always wing by one liberty Cornel [ 6d*\]: and get experience in fights flo [22k \]: :) Cornel [ 6d*\]: yes, that is also a rule flo:) Cornel [ 6d*\]: so play more games as white then enfo [20k*\]: cornel you should teach us how to count one day... flo [22k \]: hehehhe Cornel [ 6d*\]: black connected two fo the weak groups enfo [20k*\]: i can't depend on gnu go forever enfo [20k*\]: for score estimation Cornel [ 6d*\]: yes, i can do that :) Ankster011 [ NR \]: gnu go isn't very accurate either Cornel [ 6d*\]: good you asked david752 [23k \]: MFGO is good at estimation Cornel [ 6d*\]: let's forget this fight and try to count the safe points now Cornel [ 6d*\]: bvlack first david752 [23k \]: just press F9 in MFGO Cornel [ 6d*\]: 14 points in lower left corner Cornel [ 6d*\]: another 3 in lower right corner Cornel [ 6d*\]: already 17 david752 [23k \]: you can see the 14 pts at a glance if you understand links enfo [20k*\]: what are links david752 [23k \]: connections between strings Cornel [ 6d*\]: and another 13 Cornel [ 6d*\]: so 30 points secure so far Cornel [ 6d*\]: with possibility to gain more Cornel [ 6d*\]: now white's points Cornel [ 6d*\]: about 10 in this corner david752 [23k \]: I was going to say 11 flo [22k \]: it is not sure you will be able to play s1 flo [22k \]: you count with t2 Cornel [ 6d*\]: yes Cornel [ 6d*\]: ok, if black gets s1 and also s2 david752 [23k \]: you can round up or down, just do the same with both sides Cornel [ 6d*\]: white will have 7 points only Cornel [ 6d*\]: after defense and dame Cornel [ 6d*\]: but if white blocks s1 Cornel [ 6d*\]: will get 4 points more Cornel [ 6d*\]: is good to count the way you get the less points Cornel [ 6d*\]: if too optimistic you may lose after yose:) david752 [23k \]: that is good to know, thanks Cornel [ 6d*\]: L2 is not clear but I gues w can get 5 points from k3 stones enfo [20k*\]: 5? david752 [23k \]: imagine the moyo enfo [20k*\]: it would be easier tc count if n2 stone was there Cornel [ 6d*\]: 19 points in top Cornel [ 6d*\]: 3-5 on the left david752 [23k \]: those square marks make the groups look dead (as in MFGO) Cornel [ 6d*\]: those must illustrate the territory expected later in the game Cornel [ 6d*\]: another 5-6 points in top right Cornel [ 6d*\]: so how is the score so far ? enfo [20k*\]: 39 for white? Cornel [ 6d*\]: 30 for black, around 40 yes Cornel [ 6d*\]: for white Cornel [ 6d*\]: is not so hard to estimate flo [22k \]: so b should quit enfo [20k*\]: gnu go says white wins by 40 david752 [23k \]: w wins because of the dead b stones in the middle Cornel [ 6d*\]: and now the deciding fight in center enfo [20k*\]: probably because they calculate the dead stones in top left saxifrage [ NR \]: never trust a program to count :) enfo [20k*\]: heh Cornel [ 6d*\]: better try to count yourself Cornel [ 6d*\]: this fight in center was good for white cause black doesn't have enough liberties saxifrage [ NR \]: yes, that is one good thing from a book: "how do you know where to play if you dont know what the score is?" Cornel [ 6d*\]: there is a proverb saying: " the one who counts will win" Cornel [ 6d*\]: also from a book called : Go proverbs if I recall correct])) (;W[cd] ;B[ce] ;W[bc] ;B[bf] ;W[ad] ;B[cg]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: but this sequence is a dream Cornel [ 6d*\]: white won't play this way when there are better ways to keeop corner connected and also c11 stones])) (;W[jg]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: proper is to jump here next david752 [23k \]: where is "here"? Cornel [ 6d*\]: the plan was to see black's reaction Cornel [ 6d*\]: k13 is here :) david752 [23k \]: ok Cornel [ 6d*\]: like this black got a heavy group Cornel [ 6d*\]: b 16 was a mistake Cornel [ 6d*\]: what black expected..])) (;B[jg]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: black should try to attack those stones though Cornel [ 6d*\]: is the only way to get a compensation for corner loss] ;W[hd] ;B[gc] ;W[gd] ;B[fd] ;W[fb] ;B[ic] ;W[if] ;B[ig] ;W[gf] ;B[hg] ;W[fe] ;B[ef] ;W[gg] ;B[gh]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: white indeed has a hard time getting life there Cornel [ 6d*\]: this looks a bit overplay])) (;B[pc]C[pumaa [ 3d \]: i want to find a good teacher to imprve my go] ;W[kd] ;B[pg]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: is better for black to block q17 than play a pincer Cornel [ 6d*\]: black can invade top side even if white defends next] ;W[hd]C[david752 [23k \]: pumaa, Cornel was my teacher and he was great] ;B[lc]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: this m17 is an invasion point left] ;W[ld] ;B[mc] ;W[md] ;B[nb] ;W[nd] ;B[lb]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: so top side is not so interesting when white plays the o17 kakari Cornel [ 6d*\]: better leave white the illusion he'll build a lot and invade later Cornel [ 6d*\]: so defend first , attack after Cornel [ 6d*\]: black pressed now Cornel [ 6d*\]: this is joseki though Cornel [ 6d*\]: white took corner Cornel [ 6d*\]: and because of o15 stones black's wall seems a bit meaningless david752 [23k \]: w in top middle is almost surrounded Cornel [ 6d*\]: no, he is outside david752 [23k \]: oh Cornel [ 6d*\]: not easy to kill those stones david752 [23k \]: ok Cornel [ 6d*\]: black's stones seems to be dame enfo [20k*\]: dame means no territory? Cornel [ 6d*\]: neutral Cornel [ 6d*\]: this s14 block was small and gote])) (;B[co]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: black should contact play first] ;W[dn]TR[dj][fq]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: cause he has the middle side extension already Cornel [ 6d*\]: so forces white to get a heavy shape first] ;B[fq]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: defend corner] (;W[dl]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: and white can't extend ideal cause of d10 so must extend short Cornel [ 6d*\]: which makes his shape cramped Cornel [ 6d*\]: so korigatachi=overconcentrated shape david752 [23k \]: why w d8? it is so bad, why not abandon the C6? enfo [20k*\]: d8 isn't so bad.. gets eye shape enfo [20k*\]: c9 would be worse Cornel [ 6d*\]: yes but is not ideal] ;B[ck] ;W[gm] (;B[fj]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: white is forced to run out on dame points saxifrage [ NR \]: i don't know why they show this in books, Cornel [ 6d*\]: while black can set up a moyo saxifrage [ NR \]: this it very bad for w Cornel [ 6d*\]: they do ?:) saxifrage [ NR \]: oh yeah Cornel [ 6d*\]: well, what do you suggest for white ? enfo [20k*\]: now black has huge territory and bottom Cornel [ 6d*\]: there are 3 stones against one Cornel [ 6d*\]: hard for white to get an ideal shape enfo [20k*\]: it's a good outcome for the initial conditions Cornel [ 6d*\]: so black takes advantage there Cornel [ 6d*\]: yes Cornel [ 6d*\]: d8 is eye shape yes Cornel [ 6d*\]: if c9]) (;B[hq]C[david752 [23k \]: so you are saying that liiving w at c6 makes the invasion work] ;W[cq]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: not always Cornel [ 6d*\]: if black anticipates and plays h3 is impossible to live in corner Cornel [ 6d*\]: but.. Cornel [ 6d*\]: when black can't kill corner c3] ;B[dq]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: this block possible] ;W[bo] ;B[bp] ;W[cp] ;B[bq] ;W[do] ;B[cr]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: this is a standard pattern to keep corner Cornel [ 6d*\]: even if reduced Cornel [ 6d*\]: so no complications]) (;B[fo]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: if this shape white can't get 2 eyes in corner] ;W[cq] ;B[bo] ;W[er] ;B[fr] ;W[eq] ;B[ep]LB[fp:A][bq:B]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: no cut in A Cornel [ 6d*\]: this is why f5 Cornel [ 6d*\]: and no room for eyes in corner for w] (;W[bq]C[david752 [23k \]: w now alive? Cornel [ 6d*\]: how to kill this shape? Cornel [ 6d*\]: nope Cornel [ 6d*\]: dead Jubilee [19k*\]: D2 ? enfo [20k*\]: d2? Cornel [ 6d*\]: black's turn] ;B[dr] ;W[dq]C[david752 [23k \]: b2?] ;B[es] ;W[cr] ;B[ds] ;W[cs] ;B[fs] ;W[ar] ;B[bs]C[david752 [23k \]: wow Cornel [ 6d*\]: yes , d2 kills Cornel [ 6d*\]: also e1 david752 [23k \]: can you show that again, please? Cornel [ 6d*\]: or d3 and e1 Cornel [ 6d*\]: sure]) (;W[br]MA[bp]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: try to kill this shape david752 [23k \]: d1] (;B[ds] ;W[es]C[enfo [20k*\]: d3] ;B[dq] ;W[dr]C[enfo [20k*\]: c1] ;B[cs] ;W[bp]C[enfo [20k*\]: doh Cornel [ 6d*\]: try again:) david752 [23k \]: d1, c2? Cornel [ 6d*\]: so one way eliminated d1 option enfo [20k*\]: a3? Cornel [ 6d*\]: no d1 is not good start]) (;B[aq] ;W[ar]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: what next ? enfo [20k*\]: this wont' work] ;B[dr] ;W[dq]C[david752 [23k \]: a3 is nice Cornel [ 6d*\]: tesuji] ;B[es] ;W[cs] ;B[ds] ;W[cr] ;B[fs]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: obe eye only] ;W[ap] ;B[bp] ;W[bq] ;B[ao]MA[aq]C[enfo [20k*\]: a3 worked? Cornel [ 6d*\]: and another one but false Cornel [ 6d*\]: yes, congrats:) enfo [20k*\]: interesting Cornel [ 6d*\]: a3 is not an eye Cornel [ 6d*\]: so white died david752 [23k \]: there must be a proverb about reducing eye space first]) (;B[bp]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: another way] ;W[bq] ;B[es]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: there is death in hane moves] ;W[dr]C[enfo [20k*\]: you get the ugly empty triangle this way Cornel [ 6d*\]: now where next ? david752 [23k \]: a3 enfo [20k*\]: c1 Cornel [ 6d*\]: yes but when is effective doesn't matter how ugly looks:) Cornel [ 6d*\]: sometimes bad shapes can be good play] ;B[cs]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: kill the eye] ;W[ds]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: aim connection so black will block david752 [23k \]: b1] ;B[aq]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: no, you are temped to play from inside Cornel [ 6d*\]: and just said you must reduce eye room david752 [23k \]: :o( Cornel [ 6d*\]: you are not following the right principles but you know them :)] ;W[ar] ;B[bs]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: now b1] ;W[fs] ;B[hr] ;W[ap]C[enfo [20k*\]: dead as a rat Cornel [ 6d*\]: 2 false eyes won't help white Cornel [ 6d*\]: right:) Cornel [ 6d*\]: so this was a simple tsume go in corner Cornel [ 6d*\]: any questions about it ? flo [22k \]: nop Ankster011 [ NR \]: i love you david752 [23k \]: :) Cornel [ 6d*\]: thank you:) Cornel [ 6d*\]: was that a question?:) david752 [23k \]: it was a laughter]))) (;B[qf] ;W[cq] (;B[bo] ;W[er] ;B[fr]C[david752 [23k \]: Ankster, are you Mihaela?] ;W[eq] ;B[ep] ;W[fp]C[enfo [20k*\]: f5 was a really good move then.. aimed at horseehad and secured corner Ankster011 [ NR \]: what is mihaela? Cornel [ 6d*\]: no, my Mihaela is sleeping:)] ;B[hq]C[david752 [23k \]: never mind] ;W[dq] ;B[ar] ;W[br] ;B[aq] ;W[bq] ;B[ap] ;W[gp] ;B[hp] ;W[bn]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: if white cuts is difficult for black Cornel [ 6d*\]: white gets plenty of liberties inside even if one eye Cornel [ 6d*\]: and black is surrounded Cornel [ 6d*\]: so is not safe to try the kill when corner is not solid enough david752 [23k \]: 4 libs to 4 libs, so b wins Cornel [ 6d*\]: more liberties lepinskie [22k \]: an eye Cornel [ 6d*\]: will get back to that shape] ;B[eo]C[enfo [20k*\]: what if ack goes f5 enfo [20k*\]: black] ;W[fn] (;B[bp]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: b4 libertie is common Cornel [ 6d*\]: so if black plays it]) (;B[dr]C[david752 [23k \]: 5 libs foir b?] (;W[fs] ;B[gr] ;W[do] ;B[cp] ;W[en] ;B[gs] ;W[bp] ;B[es] ;W[fo] ;B[ao] ;W[an]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: a simple way to see who wins semeai david752 [23k \]: so b is down by 1 lib]) (;W[es]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: if white here is down by more Cornel [ 6d*\]: try to kill] ;B[gq] ;W[do] ;B[cp] (;W[en] ;B[fs] ;W[ci] ;B[bs] ;W[cs] ;B[bp] ;W[fo] ;B[cr] ;W[as]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: if white ignores ones is ko]) (;W[bs]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: but if white here Cornel [ 6d*\]: w gets one eye , black none Cornel [ 6d*\]: so is meari menashi Cornel [ 6d*\]: black has to play inside many times Cornel [ 6d*\]: also nakade shape spezi [ 8k \]: meari what? :) pumaa [ 3d \]: This is a good move. Cornel [ 6d*\]: but he can't atari from b4 after outside liberties are filled Cornel [ 6d*\]: :)] ;B[bp] ;W[ci] ;B[fs] ;W[di] ;B[cr] ;W[ej] ;B[cs]C[klapaucius [25k*\]: eye vs. no eye] ;W[en] ;B[as] ;W[ds] ;B[cr] ;W[fo] ;B[dr] ;W[ao]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: so white could ignore 3 times Cornel [ 6d*\]: yes klapaucius enfo [20k*\]: ouch pumaa [ 3d \]: y david752 [23k \]: 3 internal libs in eye=3 moves, 4=5, 5=8, 6=12 enfo [20k*\]: looks like a game-ending semeai Cornel [ 6d*\]: he knows everything by heart :) Cornel [ 6d*\]: but during game is difficult david752 [23k \]: yes Cornel [ 6d*\]: see what books can do to you, ask saxifrage:) Cornel [ 6d*\]: game was like this saxifrage [ NR \]: books teach you how to be weak Cornel [ 6d*\]: sorry i can't go in details to each move, would be a never ending review:) flo [22k \]: :) Cornel [ 6d*\]: well, i read many books before 1k saxifrage [ NR \]: :) i've read lots of books Cornel [ 6d*\]: i was about to quit go in that period but decided to quit books Cornel [ 6d*\]: ;) david752 [23k \]: :) Cornel [ 6d*\]: but i still recommend some books pumaa [ 3d \]: wut books david752 [23k \]: your brain works better than mine, by far Cornel [ 6d*\]: when you get to dan level is ok to start watching pro games a lot and play as much possible pumaa [ 3d \]: book is a good teacher Cornel [ 6d*\]: yes but can you talk to a book, ask questions and get answers?:) david752 [23k \]: what do you think of Bruce Wilcox's book? Cornel [ 6d*\]: I don't remember his book, ready many Cornel [ 6d*\]: sorry david752 [23k \]: ok, but is quite different from all other books Cornel [ 6d*\]: I don't say books are bad enfo [20k*\]: just not as effective as a teacher klapaucius [25k*\]: getting what you read in books into your game is hard Cornel [ 6d*\]: I liked " Lessons in the Fundamentals" by Toshiro Kageyama Cornel [ 6d*\]: yes Cornel [ 6d*\]: is good to read books and get hints pumaa [ 3d \]: we cant depend on those books Cornel [ 6d*\]: make an idea Cornel [ 6d*\]: when i started to play go there were few books I could get in my area saxifrage [ NR \]: re enfo [20k*\]: thank goodness for the internet now Cornel [ 6d*\]: and i used to read a book and play many games for 1-2 months to be able to apply something Cornel [ 6d*\]: yes, was 2k* when i first played on igs in 98:) Cornel [ 6d*\]: no more books after i found this place to play saxifrage [ NR \]: :) Cornel [ 6d*\]: unless some tsume go once while travel Cornel [ 6d*\]: to kill time david752 [23k \]: I suppose one could read a book and work with it with a good Go playing program like MFGO pumaa [ 3d \]: cornel, where r u now Cornel [ 6d*\]: I am living in the north of Romania pumaa [ 3d \]: oic saxifrage [ NR \]: Cornel is 6d going on pro :) Cornel [ 6d*\]: i know 7-8 more players in my town here david752 [23k \]: Cornel is the king Cornel [ 6d*\]: nah pumaa [ 3d \]: wut rank r u in real life? Cornel [ 6d*\]: 6dan amateur Cornel [ 6d*\]: 7d in AGA rating Cornel [ 6d*\]: so need to work some more and improve pumaa [ 3d \]: ic Cornel [ 6d*\]: like any other go player Jubilee [19k*\]: B shouldn't have leave these two stones alone in the game (C9 - D10) Cornel [ 6d*\]: is good to know even top 9p work on improving all the time david752 [23k \]: everyone should take lessons from you, Cornel, you are very clear Cornel [ 6d*\]: ok, back to the game Jubilee Jubilee [19k*\]: héhé Cornel [ 6d*\]: thanks david enfo [20k*\]: black shouldn't have played c10 later... b9 looked better Cornel [ 6d*\]: let's get back to the game review, we can chat more in channel 33 after maybe Cornel [ 6d*\]: i wouldn't choose that pincer david752 [23k \]: what is channel 33? Cornel [ 6d*\]: gotta check it to find out:) Jubilee [19k*\]: Cornel's students channel Cornel [ 6d*\]: is a channel like any other from 1 to 99 spezi [ 8k \]: place of the lost souls david752 [23k \]: television channel? Cornel [ 6d*\]: many of my students join it but is not my channel or something Cornel [ 6d*\]: no, is an IGS channel Jubilee [19k*\]: so a kosumi alone on the board... is not good, ne ? david752 [23k \]: oh, I haven't discovered that yet, sorry pumaa [ 3d \]: cornel, may i be ur student? Cornel [ 6d*\]: so you can talk there without watching a game Cornel [ 6d*\]: yes you may Cornel [ 6d*\]: but let's talk about this after review please klapaucius [25k*\]: brave O17])))) (;B[dq] ;W[bo] ;B[bp] ;W[cp] ;B[bq]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: see why b3 atari is good here for black ?] ;W[cr]C[flo [22k \]: if white descends, black connects Cornel [ 6d*\]: what if white moves out ?] ;B[do]LB[bn:A][br:B]C[enfo [20k*\]: d6 Jubilee [19k*\]: B6 Cornel [ 6d*\]: yes and miai points next] ;W[bn] ;B[br]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: who wins this semeai david ? Cornel [ 6d*\]: count liberties david752 [23k \]: b pumaa [ 3d \]: h Cornel [ 6d*\]: ok pumaa [ 3d \]: hi all enfo [20k*\]: is d6 better in miai? flo [22k \]: h Cornel [ 6d*\]: hi pumaa Cornel [ 6d*\]: so in this position Jubilee [19k*\]: Hi enfo [20k*\]: eer b6 pumaa [ 3d \]: is this a teaching game? saxifrage [ NR \]: yo Cornel [ 6d*\]: white got minimum 6 liberties Cornel [ 6d*\]: yes, game review of a game I played bombay 3d* with handi 2 before pumaa [ 3d \]: okie Cornel [ 6d*\]: how many for black ?]))) (;W[ck] ;B[cj] ;W[dk] ;B[ek]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: white's shape is still cramped and black gets very solid] ;W[el] ;B[fl] ;W[em] ;B[fk]C[flo [22k \]: is c3 an entry point??? Cornel [ 6d*\]: yes Cornel [ 6d*\]: c3 is aji for later in black's shape flo [22k \]: aha Cornel [ 6d*\]: but white needs to get a safe shape around d6 first]) (;W[cq] ;B[bo]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: if white enters right away Cornel [ 6d*\]: black will keep him separated Cornel [ 6d*\]: and is hard to deal with 2 weak groups Cornel [ 6d*\]: this is why is not recommended to invade while having weak stones david752 [23k \]: ok Cornel [ 6d*\]: must settle a solid position first Cornel [ 6d*\]: and invade after] ;W[er] ;B[fr] ;W[eq] ;B[ep] ;W[fp] ;B[dq] ;W[dr] ;B[bq] ;W[br] ;B[cp] ;W[cr] ;B[ar]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: white dies in corner first Cornel [ 6d*\]: so is not inspired to invade :) flo [22k \]: hehehe Cornel [ 6d*\]: even if white lives d6 stones would suffer david752 [23k \]: who wins the corner here? Cornel [ 6d*\]: white got 4 liberties] ;W[gp] ;B[hq] ;W[hp] ;B[iq] ;W[ip] ;B[jr] ;W[kr] ;B[ir] ;W[kq] ;B[es]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: 3 now Cornel [ 6d*\]: is clear who wins david752 [23k \]: :o] ;W[gq] ;B[gr] ;W[hs] ;B[hr] ;W[js] ;B[ds] ;W[bs] ;B[aq] ;W[is] ;B[as] ;W[gs] ;B[cs]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: see?:) david752 [23k \]: yes]))) (;B[pn] ;W[qn] (;B[kq]) (;B[jp]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: or k4 Cornel [ 6d*\]: good relation to d4 also] ;W[mo] ;B[lp] ;W[mp] ;B[nn]MA[mo][mp][mq]C[david752 [23k \]: why is there a shadow b stone--oops, gone now Cornel [ 6d*\]: white heavy like this Cornel [ 6d*\]: and eyeless also Cornel [ 6d*\]: both running but black seems ahead Cornel [ 6d*\]: and can come back to o2 for life anytime flo [22k \]: aha Cornel [ 6d*\]: please feel free to ask questions cause sometimes I go fast with variations and explanations david752 [23k \]: n4 look weaker than Q2 Cornel [ 6d*\]: and i know for 20k can be a little hard to understand Cornel [ 6d*\]: tru david Cornel [ 6d*\]: true* Cornel [ 6d*\]: all clear so far ?:) david752 [23k \]: ok toktok [ 3k*\]: good nite, guys ... cu Cornel [ 6d*\]: see you soon toktok Cornel [ 6d*\]: so like this white extends for a base Cornel [ 6d*\]: big point for black Cornel [ 6d*\]: covers one of the most open areas Cornel [ 6d*\]: white invades right away Cornel [ 6d*\]: corner approach Cornel [ 6d*\]: cause corners are most important in fuseki]))) (;B[nq] ;W[rr] ;B[mp] ;W[pr] ;B[lq]MA[pq][pr][rq][rr]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: should give away two stones and capture one Cornel [ 6d*\]: is a good sacrifice david752 [23k \]: what is "minichinesse"? not found in Web search Cornel [ 6d*\]: cause white played both inside and outside to capture 2 stones enfo [20k*\]: david i think it's a fuseki pattern david752 [23k \]: ok Cornel [ 6d*\]: yes enfo [20k*\]: white overconcentrated? Cornel [ 6d*\]: have you seen chinesse san ren sei before? flo [22k \]: yew Cornel [ 6d*\]: not all stones on hoshi Cornel [ 6d*\]: hoshi = star point] ;W[mr] ;B[lr] ;W[nr]C[david752 [23k \]: I can't find the red move in the tree Cornel [ 6d*\]: white can't escape] ;B[or]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: hmm] (;W[os] ;B[oq] ;W[qs] ;B[ms]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: cause white was short on liberties Cornel [ 6d*\]: so black's shape is very thick Jubilee [19k*\]: fun :) david752 [23k \]: the Tree window is not showing a red node Cornel [ 6d*\]: it shows on my tree list Cornel [ 6d*\]: good to know this p2 tesujin Cornel [ 6d*\]: tesuji*]) (;W[oq]C[flo [22k \]: i see it just in tree Cornel [ 6d*\]: white can't double atari cause he is in atari too Cornel [ 6d*\]: last red move is 27 Cornel [ 6d*\]: is it important to see where the tree list shows a red move ?:) david752 [23k \]: tree list also does not show current move Cornel [ 6d*\]: better focus on the sequences I show flo [22k \]: yes Cornel [ 6d*\]: you can save the game after david752 [23k \]: ok Cornel [ 6d*\]: and go over the variations, etc:) Cornel [ 6d*\]: thanks Cornel [ 6d*\]: move 18 Cornel [ 6d*\]: actual game Cornel [ 6d*\]: o2 is extremly submissive Cornel [ 6d*\]: this makes n3 look good exchange flo [22k \]: afraid of dying? Cornel [ 6d*\]: a kikashi Jubilee [19k*\]: why not a pincer on L3 ? Cornel [ 6d*\]: yes, later in the game white can play o2 Cornel [ 6d*\]: but not so dangerous now Cornel [ 6d*\]: yes L3 is the fighting spirit way to play]))) (;B[db] ;W[cb] ;B[fb] ;W[da] ;B[gc]MA[qp][oq]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: is r4 a ladder breaker? enfo [20k*\]: yes Cornel [ 6d*\]: true] (;W[oq] ;B[fd]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: w can escape though david752 [23k \]: yes--it was hard to trace visually Cornel [ 6d*\]: but the joseki is like this locally] ;W[pj] ;B[cd] ;W[cc] ;B[bd] ;W[bc]LB[cd:1][cc:2][bd:3][bc:4]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: later in the game black has 2 sente forcing moves in corner Cornel [ 6d*\]: corner worth 5-6 points for white Cornel [ 6d*\]: outside influence is a bit bigger for black Cornel [ 6d*\]: but.. saxifrage [ NR \]: yo Cornel [ 6d*\]: white finished sente Cornel [ 6d*\]: got p3 move Cornel [ 6d*\]: and in the starting position there were 2 moves against 1 in corner Cornel [ 6d*\]: like this Cornel [ 6d*\]: so the result is pretty even Cornel [ 6d*\]: depends a lot how you judge the position]) (;W[fd] ;B[fe] ;W[gd] ;B[hd] ;W[ge] ;B[gf] ;W[he] ;B[ie]C[david752 [23k \]: is the result good for w or b?] ;W[hf] ;B[hg] ;W[if] ;B[jf] ;W[ig] ;B[ih] ;W[jg] ;B[kg] ;W[jh]C[enfo [20k*\]: breakable ladders are generally good for the escapee Cornel [ 6d*\]: first thing to read in go is ladders] ;B[ji] ;W[kh] ;B[lh] ;W[ki] ;B[kj] ;W[li] ;B[mi] ;W[lj] ;B[lk]C[enfo [20k*\]: alot of dead black stones] ;W[mj] ;B[nj] ;W[mk] ;B[ml] ;W[nk]C[enfo [20k*\]: when ladder breaks] ;B[ok]C[david752 [23k \]: yes] ;W[nl] ;B[nm] ;W[ol] ;B[pl] ;W[om] ;B[on] ;W[pm] ;B[qm] ;W[pn] ;B[po] ;W[qn] ;B[rn] ;W[qo]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: white escaped david752 [23k \]: the navigation buttons do not work Jubilee [19k*\]: here, black resigns :) Cornel [ 6d*\]: even if the ladder is long like this you must be able to envision Cornel [ 6d*\]: yes will never happen but is good to see especially for our beginner observers Cornel [ 6d*\]: so black can't choose that joseki]) (;W[fq] ;B[cn] ;W[kq]TR[fq][kq][qp]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: this shape is minichinesse flo [22k \]: ok Cornel [ 6d*\]: so white can do that if he gets the chance Cornel [ 6d*\]: this atari is quite tricky :) Cornel [ 6d*\]: black missed when played here])) (;B[fb] ;W[gb] ;B[db] ;W[fa] ;B[cc] ;W[jd]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: black can go for corner though Cornel [ 6d*\]: about your question david Cornel [ 6d*\]: this joseki is fine for black Cornel [ 6d*\]: outside influence Cornel [ 6d*\]: white's corner is small])) (;W[fb]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: white can choose this move as well] ;B[cc] ;W[db] (;B[he] ;W[cd] ;B[ce] ;W[bd] ;B[hc]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: white gets corner, blaxck outside influence again]) (;B[ce] ;W[ic] ;B[ci] ;W[lc]MA[ce][de][ci]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: good shape for black Cornel [ 6d*\]: the extension is in the right spot Cornel [ 6d*\]: I wouldn't choose e17 in the first place though]))) (;B[cc]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: black could go for territory playing san san] ;W[cb] ;B[cd] ;W[eb] ;B[ci] ;W[gd]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: this is a basic pattern Cornel [ 6d*\]: corner is shared Cornel [ 6d*\]: black ends sente this way] ;B[op]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: so he can attack corner again Cornel [ 6d*\]: and is much simpler Cornel [ 6d*\]: safer also Cornel [ 6d*\]: no more cuts flo [22k \]: should he aim then for mini-chinese with p4? Cornel [ 6d*\]: no, can't get minichinesse san ren sei here])) (;W[fq] ;B[cn] ;W[kq]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: and this white's development on the bottom Cornel [ 6d*\]: is mini-chinesse san ren sei :) Cornel [ 6d*\]: clear now ?:) david752 [23k \]: yes Cornel [ 6d*\]: back to the game Cornel [ 6d*\]: why did black got trapped here .. Cornel [ 6d*\]: was forced to play 6 stones to capture one Cornel [ 6d*\]: that's not effective play])) (;B[dc]C[enfo [20k*\]: is that stone one on hoshi and stone two on komoku] ;W[oq]MA[di] (;B[ci]MA[dc][ci][dp]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: this is low chinesse san ren sei]) (;B[di]MA[dc][di][dp]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: and high chinesse san ren sei .. Cornel [ 6d*\]: so 3x4 stone in top left corner])) (;B[dd] ;W[oq] ;B[dj]MA[dd][dj][dp]C[Cornel [ 6d*\]: and this is san ren sei]))